Author Topic: Valves  (Read 11387 times)

HeyZeus

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Valves
« on: April 14, 2012, 11:04:14 PM »
So since it was raining I adjusted the valves on my Wolf and my Super 8. The Super 8 was easy the Wolf offered more of a challenge. The Wolf is running nice with the valve adjustment completed. I did .05mm intake and .15mm exhaust. I originally did .05mm intake and .08mm exhaust like the old Honda's but it did not run right. I could not get TDC to stay put so I tied the tool in place to hold it. I tried the plug pulled and in place. The spark plug looked nice and was in spec. I just cleaned it and reinstalled it. I pulled the seat and tank to do the adjustment.
Current Bikes:
Aprilia Shiver
Buell Blast, Modified
Kimco Super 8
SYM 150 Classic.

chiquito

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Re: Valves
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2012, 07:57:44 AM »
Thanks for the Info.  I'm coming up on a valve adjustment soon, so this is useful.  I'm curious if most people here that did the adjustment also took the tank off?  ...and how does one find TDC (photo, anyone?), and why was it hard to keep it there?

HeyZeus

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Re: Valves
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2012, 04:53:21 PM »
Open the view port on the top left side of transmission. Also open the large center round plug. You can open both with a screw driver. Use a socket and rachet to turn the crank until you see a F and a line. Right next to it will be a T and a line. The T line is top dead center. The hard time I had keeping the mark lined up with the line on the case is because of compression. It is normal but I usually can get it to stay. Sometimes when you loosen the valve adjustment the crank will move. You must make sure once you have your valve set right that the crank has not moved. Double check you are still TDC.
Current Bikes:
Aprilia Shiver
Buell Blast, Modified
Kimco Super 8
SYM 150 Classic.

Symba_X

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Re: Valves
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2012, 07:58:06 PM »
Thanks for the Info.  I'm coming up on a valve adjustment soon, so this is useful.  I'm curious if most people here that did the adjustment also took the tank off?  ...and how does one find TDC (photo, anyone?), and why was it hard to keep it there?

You should do a DIY so I can learn too :D Im a newbie

Thank you in advance!

Mr_Krabs

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Re: Valves
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 08:24:12 PM »
My bikes I've always been lazy, to turn the piston to TDC pretty easily I simply put the bike in 5th gear, remove the spark plug and spin the wheel, You can usually feel just when the piston hits true TDC or you can shine a light and look down the spark plug hole.

chiquito

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Re: Valves
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2012, 06:22:57 PM »
crap. crap. crap.  :(

So I wasn't happy with starts and the engine sounded just a little clangy, so I decided to do a valve adjustment.... Got everything torn apart (seat, tank, vacuum lines here and there...)  Got it to top dead center using the peeper hole thing, got the valve covers off, bent the end of my feeler gauges to reach, and I thought everything went totally fine and I felt good about the clearances.  However, after I got everything back together, it does NOT sound right. 

It started fine, but it's loudly clacking during idle which must be valve noise.  I can't tell by listening which valve it is.  I didn't want to run it for long for fear of damage, but I did give it a tiny bit of throttle and it just stalled when I did that.

I was going according to the alliance sticker on the fork leg for specs.  The intake valve is the one by the carb, and exhaust valve is by the exhaust header, of course, right?

what have I done???

pacnwfoto

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Re: Valves
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2012, 06:35:06 PM »
Did you do a full 360* rotation to get to the mark?

The feeler should drag a little when setting the clearance.  What makes valve adjusting so much fun  ::)  is that tightening the snug nut opens the gap.  So, you typically need to do the adjustment several times.  Experience will teach how much drag is necessary.
Just say NO to ugly and impractical motorcycles.

chiquito

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Re: Valves
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2012, 07:03:39 PM »
yeah, I went around a couple times to be sure.  I have it all tore apart again..... now I'm second guessing everything.  I took the entire adjustment bolt with locknut out on the intake side just so I could get eyes in there to be sure of exactly what it is I'm gapping.....and now I guess I'm more confused

the end of that adjustment bolt has a slightly domed end.  I assume I'm gapping the distance of that to the top of the valve, right?

pacnwfoto

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Re: Valves
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2012, 07:51:52 PM »
....the end of that adjustment bolt has a slightly domed end.  I assume I'm gapping the distance of that to the top of the valve, right?

Yes
Just say NO to ugly and impractical motorcycles.

chiquito

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Re: Valves
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 09:08:51 PM »
I think she's fine now.  I collected myself, moved to the garage (was working in the yard), got some good lighting going on and got comfy.  I was loose on the intake and I think my TDC drifted during the first attempt.   Basically the same thing mentioned above about difficulty keeping TDC on the mark, but I didn't pay good enough attention to it.  The flywheel wants to roll forward away from the "T" mark, so what I ended up doing was leaving the socket wrench on the flywheel bolt with the handle at 3 o'clock and I weighted it with a bean bag from the bean bag toss game in the garage (a.k.a. "cornhole" for you southerners).  That kept enough tension to keep TDC on the mark.

With that taken care of, I carefully adjusted the valves again, and reassembled.  The engine was dead cold and it started superbly!  It hasn't started this good since I first had it.  There is just a faint audible clicking of the valves now, but that's the extent of it.  Previously I had a moderately loud valve clacking during downshifts/engine-braking, and that is now almost totally gone.

Thanks for the guidance!

pacnwfoto

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Re: Valves
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 01:03:18 AM »
I think she's fine now....There is just a faint audible clicking of the valves now, but that's the extent of it. 

Lightly ticking valves are happy valves.  :)
Just say NO to ugly and impractical motorcycles.

chiquito

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Re: Valves
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 08:33:17 AM »
Quote
Lightly ticking valves are happy valves.  :)

Cheers!  So....last issue: like a rookie, I didn't have the proper socket for the valve adjustment caps and I used a large adjustable at first.  Rounded off two corners of the exhaust valve cover and then stopped to go get the darn socket anyway.  The cap is totally functional and the socket interfaces with it fine, but I kind of want to replace the cap now.  

No luck looking online for a sym cap, but there are tons of honda options on ebay for bikes like the cb125, 150, 160, etc...  Unfortunately I haven't found one with actual measurements, but some look like they're very close.  So the question is - is the sym engine a clone of a particular honda engine insofar as the valve caps are interchangeable?

I'm sure Cam could get it, but I'm not sure I'm going to want to pay for shipping from halfway across the globe  :-\

pacnwfoto

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Re: Valves
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 10:04:10 AM »
Order it from your SYM dealer.
Just say NO to ugly and impractical motorcycles.

chiquito

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Re: Valves
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2012, 03:46:41 PM »
So since I'm new to adjusting valves, while I was fine with my eventual result (runs and starts great), I was paranoid I had maybe done something wrong.  So since it's raining today anyway, I tore it apart again and took some pictures this time for any other rookies on the forum.  This is a pretty high-level overview, but I hope it's still helpful to some. 

With seat and tank removed:


Finding TDC:


Intake Valve:


Exhaust Valve:


Looking at the valves, the square drive thing is what you're actually adjusting, and the 10mm nut locks the setting in place.  Just take your time feeling around with the gauges.  It's also a little goofy to set the lock nut while keeping the setting where you want it (I hear they make a special tool just for this, but I don't have that), so what I ended up doing was gripping the square drive with a 6" adjustable wrench just to keep it still, and then did my initial torque of the lock nut with a 10mm open-ended wrench, which locks in the setting, and then final torque with a 10mm socket (don't over do it).  Then just put it all back together again!  The first time I did this was a 2 hour ordeal, mostly because I messed up the first time (see earlier reply), but today's work was a good half-hour, maybe 40 minutes tear-down to engine running again.   ;D

pacnwfoto

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Re: Valves
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2012, 04:27:32 PM »
....It's also a little goofy to set the lock nut while keeping the setting where you want it (I hear they make a special tool just for this, but I don't have that), so what I ended up doing was gripping the square drive with a 6" adjustable wrench just to keep it still....

Fwiw, the rocker arm screw can be rotated down against the feeler gauge blade, and held lightly snug in place while tightening the lock nut, with your fingers.  The special tool is a time saving widget for people in a shop who have to adjust valves all day.

Nice photos!  :)
Just say NO to ugly and impractical motorcycles.

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