Author Topic: New-ish SYM scooters?  (Read 1602 times)

Thoppa

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New-ish SYM scooters?
« on: January 30, 2021, 07:26:25 PM »
Hi,

SYM have updated the design of the Joymax Z 300 to give it dual LED headlights and traction control. Behold, the Z+ which looks somewhat like the Kawasaki Ninja 400?




It has a page here. http://www.sym-global.com/joymaxzplus300

I also saw the new (?) Cruisym α (alpha) which has LED lights, a new dash and traction control. Is this a slightly new version?

http://www.sym-global.com/scooter-10-product59



I have inserted SYM's images into this post but they don't seem to be displayed for some reason.



« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 08:27:19 PM by Thoppa »
Ninja 650R
Citycom 300

Tromper

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2021, 12:37:17 PM »
Seeing the images just fine, but sadly SYM's offerings in the U.S. are pretty slim pickings compared to whatcha get in your neck of the woods.
True of all marques really, & likely for valid reasons.

https://www.sym-usa.com/models/index.html
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08 SYM HD200 - Deceased
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Sylar

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2021, 12:37:57 PM »
I saw that SYM had updated the Cruisym, now called an alpha, i think. It seems they have introduced an electronic dash panel and changed the halogen headlights to L.E.D. That was one of my niggles, having the speedo in Km instead of M.P.H. My Cruisym 300 will be three years old in May, so i will not be changing it just yet. I got my info from You Tube.

Thoppa

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2021, 01:57:14 AM »
Seeing the images just fine, but sadly SYM's offerings in the U.S. are pretty slim pickings compared to whatcha get in your neck of the woods.
True of all marques really, & likely for valid reasons.

https://www.sym-usa.com/models/index.html

Aha, thanks for that feedback - it seems the images won't appear in Edge browser but are fine in Firefox.

I'm not sure we'll get the new models here either - there's already a different version of the Z available (in China and Japan it seems) but we only get the older one, and we don't get the HD models or Citycom either. The alternate Z has a radial mounted front brake caliper and a single LED headlight. It's strange as I thought this minor variant thing is more costly for the manufacturer - more parts, more inventory, etc.
Bulb light

LED light




« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 03:02:42 AM by Thoppa »
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Thoppa

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2021, 02:04:53 AM »
I saw that SYM had updated the Cruisym, now called an alpha, i think. It seems they have introduced an electronic dash panel and changed the halogen headlights to L.E.D. That was one of my niggles, having the speedo in Km instead of M.P.H. My Cruisym 300 will be three years old in May, so i will not be changing it just yet. I got my info from You Tube.

Yes, a Cruisym alpha - dunno when this was updated - do you know?

The other change appears to be traction control so that will mean a small bump in the price I guess. I would like traction control but I wouldn't buy a new scooter to get it, especially not if mine was only 3 years old - save the money for when they release a significant model upgrade.

My Citycom is 2009 though, and looking fairly tatty. It seems to be doing okay at 73,000kms but top speed is now about 120kmh (GPS) when she was capable of a little over 130kmh before, and fuel economy is 10% less (usually 32kml but now 30kml) so I guess it is wearing out slowly. I told myself I'd run it until it died but I'm hankering after a new machine!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 02:48:39 AM by Thoppa »
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Sylar

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2021, 01:31:22 PM »
I know the principles behind ABS but, how does Traction control work, Thoppa ?

Thoppa

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2021, 08:52:54 PM »
I know the principles behind ABS but, how does Traction control work, Thoppa ?

Hi,

I'm not too sure how it works exactly - I always assumed an ABS/TCS system measured the rotational speeds of the front and rear to detect if the front or rear is either locking up (ABS) or the rear was spinning too fast (TCS). ABS would then modulate braking pressure by pulsing it and TCS would lower engine torque to reduce any difference between front and rear rotation speeds. Because scooters are usually cable-pull throttles and single-cylinder engines, I assume that engine torque is lowered by retarding the ignition - so ABS can be used to measure wheel speeds for the TCS, and TCS controls slip/spin by retarding ignition.
 
I even find it hard to write that clearly! I hope it makes sense :-)

Bosch say in their documentation about the 9.1 system (http://www.bosch.co.jp/tms2015/en/products/pdf/2WP_ProductDataSheet_ABS9_base_plus_EN_lowres_20151030.pdf) that their TCS can be added to their ABS, however, they are quite vague and don't give any technical details so I don't know for sure how it works - I assume it's much the same thing on the front and rear - a disc/sensor combo that create a large number of pulses every rotation - plus the TCS has to be integrated into the scooter's ignition (& fuel injection, etc?) systems so it can lower engine torque output - so I guess that is software added into the scooter's ECU but maybe it works some other way to control the engine. Does it need a ride-by-wire throttle or just a throttle position sensor or....? how about a torque sensor or calculation? I dunno. I guess that, as a basic system, it just needs to be able to lower the engine output until the rear wheel is turning at the same speed as the front but I don't know how it does it. Ideally, it would be able to know when the tire is experiencing high torque (gear, throttle, engine speed, wheel speed) and instantly detect a sudden spike suggesting a spinning rear is starting and cut it even before the spike had any real effect.
 
This is their ABS page : https://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.com/en/products-and-services/two-wheeler-and-powersports/riding-safety-systems/motorcycle-abs/
and motorcycle stability control page: https://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.com/en/products-and-services/two-wheeler-and-powersports/riding-safety-systems/motorcycle-stability-control/

I'm not the only one who has noticed how vague the manufacturers are about their technology. Here's an article on TCS that suggests different companies do it different-yet-similar ways and that no-one is giving up the recipe of their secret sauce. The article is a little out of date as many bikes now have six-axis inertia measurements so they have cornering abs, tcs, wheelie control, launch control, off-road and hooligan settings... you name it.  https://www.motorcycle.com/how-to/traction-control-explained-91272.html

I'm old enough to remember setting the points, and then how wonderful electronic ignition was... and I loved it when fuel injection became better than a carb.... but now there's bluetooth-enabled speedos with smartphone apps for I don't know what. I dislike this trend but a bike with a six-axis imu does sound like a good idea - not idiot proof exactly but maybe clumsy proof - something  I'd appreciate :-)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 10:18:57 PM by Thoppa »
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Sylar

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2021, 04:40:47 AM »
All very technical. I also used to set points in the distributor when we had HT coils as well. I also run a Honda Silver wing 600 and the only time I have had breakdowns it has been electrical problems. All very well when everything is working okay but, a real problem when things go wrong. Machines of today are not meant for home maintainance, "take it to your dealer" is the mantra.

fulham

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2021, 11:48:41 AM »
Hi
rang motogb the uk importer and aked if there was any intention to bring the Z+ or cruisym alpha to the UK, they said no at the moment unless SYM agree an attractive price agreement

Thoppa

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 07:39:46 PM »
All very technical. I also used to set points in the distributor when we had HT coils as well. I also run a Honda Silver wing 600 and the only time I have had breakdowns it has been electrical problems. All very well when everything is working okay but, a real problem when things go wrong. Machines of today are not meant for home maintainance, "take it to your dealer" is the mantra.

Yeah, that barrier to maintenance and modification bothers me too - I really like to be able to work on a machine - needing to plug it in to a diagnostic computer is the big issue for me. 
Ninja 650R
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Thoppa

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 07:42:47 PM »
Hi
rang motogb the uk importer and aked if there was any intention to bring the Z+ or cruisym alpha to the UK, they said no at the moment unless SYM agree an attractive price agreement

That's a shame - but at least it means they know the new models exist so they might be available at some point.

It's the lunar new year here (Year of the Ox) so most shops are shut for a holiday. They'll reopen late next week and then I'll ask the importer here.
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Thoppa

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2021, 08:53:04 PM »
Hi
rang motogb the uk importer and aked if there was any intention to bring the Z+ or cruisym alpha to the UK, they said no at the moment unless SYM agree an attractive price agreement

Hi

Good news - the Z+ is available for order on the MotoGB website - the 300 is 4999 +OTR - blue, white, silver, or black. How does that compare with the price of the Z?
https://www.symuk.co.uk/index.php/buy-online/2021-sym-joymax-z-300cc-893

The dealer here in HK still doesn't know, so I contacted SYM directly in Taiwan and they said last quarter this year, maybe first quarter next year. Um.
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Citycom 300

Syd

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2021, 09:25:03 PM »
The US importer shows the Citycom, the Fiddle III, the Mio 50 and the Wolf. Been that way for some time.

Thoppa

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2021, 09:57:57 PM »
Hi,

Has the US adopted Euro 5 standards or its own version of them? If not, then I guess it's likely it'll be the main market for the Euro 4 versions, while Europe gets all the refreshed Euro 5 models this year. Euro 5 came into effect for existing models 6 months ago I think, and the SYM range has been refreshed for this, as with many motorcycle companies, so Europe has been getting a load of refreshed versions of existing machines this year.
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Syd

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Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2021, 05:52:15 PM »
I have a feeling that one of Carter Bros. troubles -there were many - was that they carried most every model SYM made. After "the fire" and the change to Alliance, the lineup is limited and will stay that way, emissions or not.

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