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Messages - Thoppa

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Citycom 300 / Re: Citycom 300i starting problem
« on: March 21, 2021, 08:30:27 PM »
Thanks for the follow up. I thought I got a bargain with a nearly new CC for half the new price, but that is definitely the best deal ever!

General Discussion / Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« on: February 11, 2021, 07:42:47 PM »
rang motogb the uk importer and aked if there was any intention to bring the Z+ or cruisym alpha to the UK, they said no at the moment unless SYM agree an attractive price agreement

That's a shame - but at least it means they know the new models exist so they might be available at some point.

It's the lunar new year here (Year of the Ox) so most shops are shut for a holiday. They'll reopen late next week and then I'll ask the importer here.

General Discussion / Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« on: February 11, 2021, 07:39:46 PM »
All very technical. I also used to set points in the distributor when we had HT coils as well. I also run a Honda Silver wing 600 and the only time I have had breakdowns it has been electrical problems. All very well when everything is working okay but, a real problem when things go wrong. Machines of today are not meant for home maintainance, "take it to your dealer" is the mantra.

Yeah, that barrier to maintenance and modification bothers me too - I really like to be able to work on a machine - needing to plug it in to a diagnostic computer is the big issue for me. 

Citycom 300 / Re: Citycom 300i starting problem
« on: February 11, 2021, 07:35:12 PM »
Great job - it's not easy fixing multiple electrical problems... it can be very frustrating!

I have had a starter relay die on another machine - I reckon lots of cranking in cold weather was the cause.

How did you identify that you were getting no fuel? I guess you tested the pump? Another thing to check is fuel lines - maybe they got gummed up from the machine sitting for too long?

Let us know if it turns out that was all - starter relay and fuel pump.

General Discussion / Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« on: February 06, 2021, 08:52:54 PM »
I know the principles behind ABS but, how does Traction control work, Thoppa ?


I'm not too sure how it works exactly - I always assumed an ABS/TCS system measured the rotational speeds of the front and rear to detect if the front or rear is either locking up (ABS) or the rear was spinning too fast (TCS). ABS would then modulate braking pressure by pulsing it and TCS would lower engine torque to reduce any difference between front and rear rotation speeds. Because scooters are usually cable-pull throttles and single-cylinder engines, I assume that engine torque is lowered by retarding the ignition - so ABS can be used to measure wheel speeds for the TCS, and TCS controls slip/spin by retarding ignition.
I even find it hard to write that clearly! I hope it makes sense :-)

Bosch say in their documentation about the 9.1 system ( that their TCS can be added to their ABS, however, they are quite vague and don't give any technical details so I don't know for sure how it works - I assume it's much the same thing on the front and rear - a disc/sensor combo that create a large number of pulses every rotation - plus the TCS has to be integrated into the scooter's ignition (& fuel injection, etc?) systems so it can lower engine torque output - so I guess that is software added into the scooter's ECU but maybe it works some other way to control the engine. Does it need a ride-by-wire throttle or just a throttle position sensor or....? how about a torque sensor or calculation? I dunno. I guess that, as a basic system, it just needs to be able to lower the engine output until the rear wheel is turning at the same speed as the front but I don't know how it does it. Ideally, it would be able to know when the tire is experiencing high torque (gear, throttle, engine speed, wheel speed) and instantly detect a sudden spike suggesting a spinning rear is starting and cut it even before the spike had any real effect.
This is their ABS page :
and motorcycle stability control page:

I'm not the only one who has noticed how vague the manufacturers are about their technology. Here's an article on TCS that suggests different companies do it different-yet-similar ways and that no-one is giving up the recipe of their secret sauce. The article is a little out of date as many bikes now have six-axis inertia measurements so they have cornering abs, tcs, wheelie control, launch control, off-road and hooligan settings... you name it.

I'm old enough to remember setting the points, and then how wonderful electronic ignition was... and I loved it when fuel injection became better than a carb.... but now there's bluetooth-enabled speedos with smartphone apps for I don't know what. I dislike this trend but a bike with a six-axis imu does sound like a good idea - not idiot proof exactly but maybe clumsy proof - something  I'd appreciate :-)

General Discussion / Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« on: February 06, 2021, 02:04:53 AM »
I saw that SYM had updated the Cruisym, now called an alpha, i think. It seems they have introduced an electronic dash panel and changed the halogen headlights to L.E.D. That was one of my niggles, having the speedo in Km instead of M.P.H. My Cruisym 300 will be three years old in May, so i will not be changing it just yet. I got my info from You Tube.

Yes, a Cruisym alpha - dunno when this was updated - do you know?

The other change appears to be traction control so that will mean a small bump in the price I guess. I would like traction control but I wouldn't buy a new scooter to get it, especially not if mine was only 3 years old - save the money for when they release a significant model upgrade.

My Citycom is 2009 though, and looking fairly tatty. It seems to be doing okay at 73,000kms but top speed is now about 120kmh (GPS) when she was capable of a little over 130kmh before, and fuel economy is 10% less (usually 32kml but now 30kml) so I guess it is wearing out slowly. I told myself I'd run it until it died but I'm hankering after a new machine!

General Discussion / Re: New-ish SYM scooters?
« on: February 06, 2021, 01:57:14 AM »
Seeing the images just fine, but sadly SYM's offerings in the U.S. are pretty slim pickings compared to whatcha get in your neck of the woods.
True of all marques really, & likely for valid reasons.

Aha, thanks for that feedback - it seems the images won't appear in Edge browser but are fine in Firefox.

I'm not sure we'll get the new models here either - there's already a different version of the Z available (in China and Japan it seems) but we only get the older one, and we don't get the HD models or Citycom either. The alternate Z has a radial mounted front brake caliper and a single LED headlight. It's strange as I thought this minor variant thing is more costly for the manufacturer - more parts, more inventory, etc.
Bulb light

LED light

General Discussion / New-ish SYM scooters?
« on: January 30, 2021, 07:26:25 PM »

SYM have updated the design of the Joymax Z 300 to give it dual LED headlights and traction control. Behold, the Z+ which looks somewhat like the Kawasaki Ninja 400?

It has a page here.

I also saw the new (?) Cruisym α (alpha) which has LED lights, a new dash and traction control. Is this a slightly new version?

I have inserted SYM's images into this post but they don't seem to be displayed for some reason.

Citycom 300 / Re: citycom panel problem
« on: December 12, 2020, 10:44:54 PM »
I guess it is the Hall-effect sensor switch - it either cannot trip itself enough times per second to get to the frequency of switches needed to exceed 60kmh, or it can, and the cable has a problem sending the pulsed signal, as you guessed.

But why. Is it not picking up the ferrous bolts correctly? Is it corroded inside? Is the cable coming out of the speed senor corroded?

The cable has a double rubber protection but tiny amounts of water can get inside and will collect at the base of the cable - its lowest point - where the cable comes down from the frame then bends back up again to the wheel speed sensor mount near the brake caliper. This copper cable can corrode making a poor connection. This bad connection creates an intermittent issue and/or increased resistance, either of which would prevent the cable transmitting the pulsed signal accurately/correctly.

So, if you have the tools, you could remove the rubber protections around the cable near its lowest bend and see if there is a problem with corroded copper.

Citycom 300 / Re: citycom panel problem
« on: December 03, 2020, 03:19:07 AM »

Welcome to the world's least active forum.

It sounds like the needle is sticking in position - jammed - needles can get stuck or come loose over time, to the point where the stepper motor that drives them is not powerful enough to overcome it. I got a sticking needle on another machine - I had to remove and disassemble the display to find out that was the problem. I adjusted the needle position out from the dial using a fork as a lever. The other problem could be that something has come loose and is jamming the needle. Has the display been sitting in the sun for long periods? Has it had an impact of any kind? How old is the machine?

Normally, when you turn the ignition on, the needles do a full sweep to their maximum position and then return. It sounds like yours are only turning to 20kmh and then not returning? Then they move to 60kmh and stick there when the front wheel rotates - do they go back to 20kmh when the wheel stops turning? Is the movement between 20 and 60 somewhat normal?

General Discussion / Re: What is the latest news from SYM?
« on: November 28, 2020, 08:14:00 PM »

Gogoro are great - the battery swap stations in Taipei work so well. I'd get an electric scoot if they had that here in HK. We have hardly any electric two-wheelers because the govt makes it obstructively difficult to get them registered. There's one company that has just managed to break through the red tape - hopefully more will follow.

The other place for news is SYM's own site (but I guess you checked that already) - they signed a deal with GFX in Thailand recently. And they have been working on e-scooters for over a year now - two models - but they aren't great.
The e-scoot

General Discussion / Re: What is the latest news from SYM?
« on: November 28, 2020, 03:08:51 AM »
I live in Hong Kong and have relatives in Taiwan. Because of the way HK is going, we might leave and one option is Taiwan, so I pay attention to Taiwan news. There was some about Sanyang 三阳 (SYM) being very popular in S America but it isn't the kind of news of a deal or anything like that which could send shares suddenly higher.
Focus Taiwan is my main source of English news:

General Discussion / Re: Bike died
« on: November 15, 2020, 07:05:07 AM »
I think it is usually called an engine stop - is it rhs or lhs on the sym? but it also is effectively an engine won't start too right? Plus, the engine won't start unless a brake light switch works so if they both go at once.,,,

General Discussion / Re: Bike died
« on: November 13, 2020, 05:51:41 PM »
How do you know the underseat security switch actually works? I would test this and the other "kill" switches such as those on the sidestand and right hand switchgear.

Citycom 300 / Re: Bike died
« on: November 13, 2020, 05:48:42 PM »
The better version of this post, with answers, is here

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