SYM Owners Forum

Scooter Models => Citycom 300 => Topic started by: Thoppa on February 08, 2020, 09:11:04 PM

Title: Citycom 300 running costs in Hong Kong over 5 years.
Post by: Thoppa on February 08, 2020, 09:11:04 PM

I thought I'd share this with y'all since I think my CC is one of the best ways to commute and I'm willing to argue that with any takers :-)

Here’s a record of the averaged running costs over 24,000kms (2 years for me), in US$. I've done over 64,000 in 5 years so far, and although the LCD display is almost dead (burned out in the middle, like an old Gameboy), the rest of the scoot is fine. I bought the CC with 4,000kms on the clock, 4 years old, for $3,000. As you can see, the biggest costs are fuel, depreciation, and paying the man. It’s in order of expense, highest to lowest.

1. Fuel: on my regular commute I get 32km/l. That’s  $1,235 for 24,000kms. It’s mostly highway at 100km/h plus some lane sharing through jams and a little city riding. Compared to my Kawasaki Ninja 650R, this is a saving of about $600.

2. Depreciation = $1,200, 2 yrs – the machine cost $3,000 and I assume I’ll never sell it so it’s a total loss from purchase. As a result, depreciation loss per year keeps decreasing the longer the machine is in constant use and it’s had 5 years of this so far. The Ninja cost $5,000 and I’ve had it 10 years, and it’s still worth something, so they’re about the same. The CC would be impossible to sell here - the old age and the relatively high seat means no-one would buy it. It's fairly obvious that the more often you buy/sell vehicles, the higher this cost is, and it can easily be the most expensive.

3. The man - government mandated costs – insurance ($200 for 2 years), and road tax ($325 in 2 years) = $525 in 2 years / 24,000kms. Again, the insurance is 30% cheaper than the Ninja.

4. Tires – $120 – Maxxis lasted 18,000kms, would cost $100 to replace, but typically scooter tires cost around $200-$300 for 24,000kms it seems? For me, the actual cost of Seyoun NJK is US$60 for 12,000. Compare to my Kawasaki Ninja, which is $250 for 8,000kms, the Ninja is over 6x the price of the CC.

5. Belt – $50 – replaced at 21,870kms when the revs started rising a little – not fully worn – $80 for the SYM part: Mitsuboshi is $55 on Amazon. The second belt had worn to 23.1mm at 49,460km. The service limit is 22.5mm. I replaced it after 40,000kms of use (62k on the ODO) when it was 22.8mm and looking a little cracked between the grooves. Say $50 for 24,000kms.

6. Oil changes every 3,000kms and gear oil every 6,000kms is 11 litres of 10W40 engine oil and half a litre of gear oil (Castrol GL-5 85W-140) for 24,000kms = $45

7. Air filter – switched to K&N = $150 for the filter, cleaner and oil = a lifetime, so it’s hard to say, but call it $40 for 24,000kms.

8. Transmission – clutch, variator, rollers, etc. – still working fine at 62,000km. Clutch pads at 5.5mm – wear limit is 3mm – so clutch life is 120,000kms or so. Again, hard to say, but call it $40 in 24,000kms.

9. Brake pads – the front and rear use the same pads and I’ve used 6 sets in 60,000km – the originals, 1 pair of EBC sintered ($20), another EBC organic ($10) in the front and some very cheap unbranded pads in the rear ($2.50). Brake fluid was replaced at 30,000kms for $15. Overall that is $20 in 24,000kms. The rear brake is so powerful, every pad I've tried has made little difference. The same can't be said for the front, where only the EBC are good enough, and the SFA264HH sintered pads make it a decent brake.

10. Spark plug – Iridium CR8EIX or CR9EIX (tuned) every 30,000kms or so is $10

And that's it for running costs.

For repairs, I needed new fork seals and ATF fluid ($50), a new main stand bump rubber ($10), a new left brake light switch (a standard part used widely on a huge number of machines, $5), and some rear axle nuts and thread lock ($10). I might say I need a new display but not yet. It's bad but the ODO and fuel level are still readable. The clock can barely be made out, which means it's useless on the go when I need it.

The total running costs are $3,285, and it means $0.137 per km or $9.58 for my 70km commute. In Hong Kong, it means about HK$1.07 per km, or HK$75 a day, which is about 35% more expensive than the cheapest public transport but it's less than half the time, and is so much more enjoyable and convenient. It’s also about $600 a year cheaper than the Ninja, mostly because of lower tire, fuel and insurance costs. 🙂

I've got my eye on an X-Max 300 and a MT-09 as replacements/upgrades, but as long as the CC and Ninja keep doing what they do, I am holding off on the new machines.

Well done SYM - you made a mighty fine scooter.
Title: Re: Citycom 300 running costs in Hong Kong over 5 years.
Post by: Tromper on February 13, 2020, 12:35:07 AM
Very nicely done Thoppa.
Title: Re: Citycom 300 running costs in Hong Kong over 5 years.
Post by: Thoppa on February 28, 2020, 03:26:16 AM
Thank you - it's a great machine and that's why I can do a five year review. And the CC is why I'm a scooter convert too :-)
Title: Re: Citycom 300 running costs in Hong Kong over 5 years.
Post by: citycom1 on March 13, 2020, 06:12:06 PM
Thank you Thoppa   Record keeping at that level is very helpful.

I have happily had two Citycoms.  The blue 2009 was sold at 10000 miles to buy my current white 2016 Citycom S with 6600 miles.
Both have been sheer pleasure and 100% reliable and needed normal wear and tear replacement items about the same time.  I use the bike mostly to make utility trips joyful (3-10 miles) in a town of about 40,000.
The 2009 got Pirelli Diablos, EBC Brake pads, spark plug at around 7000 miles.  One of the headlight bulbs went out around 9000. Normal expenses coupled with 100% reliable.  I was ready  to keep it another 10000 miles.  Then:

I live in the desert with 110 plus temps so did not want to exceed the heat/wattage of the plenty bright 35W stock bulbs—for some reason hard to find. While searching for 35W bulbs I discovered a highly mechanically upgraded S was being made. 
Sold the 2009 for the 2016 white S. 
On the 2016 Citycom At 4000 miles a headlight burned out so put in another pair of new 35W (source is Ooty’s Scooters, Santa Barbara).  At 6000 new EBC  sintered front and rear. Next week really looking forward to new Michelin City Grips at 6600 miles.  Original tires have many miles left and are very tired:-). Spark plug in 6-12 months.
I like your terrific record keeping and your tire prices.  Looking at $206.21 for the highly anticipated juicy fresh City Grips, not including mounting and balancing.
And, good point on the rear brake. While I thought I used front and rear brake evenly the rear brake was almost gone—Yikes.  Going to focus on a little more front.  Slightly easier to swap out, too.
A joy to ride, reasonable running cost, highly reliable and,
as you say, a mighty fine scoot.

Title: Re: Citycom 300 running costs in Hong Kong over 5 years.
Post by: Thoppa on April 07, 2020, 08:49:26 PM

I haven't had any trouble with bulbs, although I did replace the original headlight unit with some relays so I could use LEDs.

The Wuhan pneumonia virus has meant the CC has been parked outside, rarely used for 2.5 months now as I work from home. I charged up the battery once during this time but it seems that was not enough and the CC refused to start on a journey home from the supermarket. I left plenty of time between starting attempts so I know it wasn't "flooded" and I thought it must either be the battery or stale fuel.

I got the bus home, took the battery out of the Ninja ( they are identical types - except the Ninja has a LiFePo4 lithium iron phosphate battery ) and went back to the CC to first try a replacement battery - started instantly. So, not stale fuel but an underused battery.

I charged and tested the battery - it charges up fine and hits 12.6V fifteen minutes after the charger is turned off. It should be 12.8V to be a-okay, so it is a little old after five years.

A new LiFePo4 battery is $45 here so that adds US$9 to the annual cost.

Title: Re: Citycom 300 running costs in Hong Kong over 5 years.
Post by: Tromper on April 08, 2020, 02:28:27 AM
Glad to hear you're still bumping around.   Not a lot of action here either.  Things are mostly closed, so I tend to take the long way to the grocery store.  If things go as expected it should start loosening up around here in a few weeks.  We'll see.

LiFePo4  batteries are probably great where you are.
Their weakness is cold temperatures, not really even that cold by my standards, so I use an AGM battery & keep it on a tender, but I suspect that'd be a bit tough if you're parking on the street.
Title: Re: Citycom 300 running costs in Hong Kong over 5 years.
Post by: Thoppa on April 16, 2020, 07:37:08 PM

It's quiet here too - well, at least for Hong Kong - even under the virus, it's still busier than say, Canberra, is on a crazy day. We get 50 million tourists a year - no exaggeration - hundreds of thousands every day from China - but that's now a few hundred a day. I actually like this aspect, but still can't wait for the virus to go away. What a catastrophe.

I doubt I'll ever get to test my LiFePo4 battery in cold weather - rarely less than 10 degC here and never below freezing even on a mountain top. The battery is rated to -20C - a "Power Start Super Natto" - but I doubt it does what it claims though, like all China stuff. They do a version with a Bluetooth kill switch for security/anti-theft which seems like a good idea that is bound to go wrong. But the 2 batteries I have so far have been excellent - I was surprised how it actually seems to make the scooter more lively. I had not expected that.