SYM Owners Forum

Scooter Models => Fiddle II 125 => Topic started by: yodaismycopilot on March 30, 2018, 11:28:01 PM

Title: Horsepower for Fiddle III 200i
Post by: yodaismycopilot on March 30, 2018, 11:28:01 PM
Website says 11.8 HP. I'm a novice looking for a first bike. Is it just me or does 11.8 HP seem a tad low for 169cc?
Title: Re: Horsepower for Fiddle III 200i
Post by: redridinghood on March 31, 2018, 09:28:55 AM
So long as you're comparing apples to apples, the HP numbers of the 2 valve 169cc engine aren't low...

...You may have noticed the SYM HD 200 (171cc) has 15.2 HP, but it has a 4 valve cylinder head

 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PXD_AvKbCMg (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PXD_AvKbCMg)

Honda makes a motorcycle called the VFR800 and it uses a 'stone age' version of 'VTEC' (Honda's name for variable valve timing) where at lower RPM, 2 of the 4 valves for each cylinder remain closed (effectively making the engine a 2 valves per cylinder design)... Enjoy your 2 valve cylinder head advantage, for its rocket off the line, starts...😜

...Okay, so we know a small displacement engine with a CVT, spends its life screaming at high RPM...

Upon further examination of the video title 'DOHC vs OHV' (as if DOHC automatically means 4 valve heads...🙃)  the Engineering Explained guy posted, I have to add this  http://www.chinonthetank.com/2012/12/how-cb450-torsion-bars-work/ (http://www.chinonthetank.com/2012/12/how-cb450-torsion-bars-work/) DOHC with 2 valve heads...😉 But what really made this engine unique is the way the valves get closed.. 🙄  Take that, Ducati! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ocfIYUc5bpU (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ocfIYUc5bpU)

Taking engines to thermonuclear proportions, this was Honda's attempt to compete against 2 stroke racing engines, after they were denied a bend in the rules to make a 4 stroke 500cc V8... http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-only-oval-piston-dual-con-rod.html (http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-only-oval-piston-dual-con-rod.html)
Title: Re: Horsepower for Fiddle III 200i
Post by: Tromper on April 01, 2018, 10:11:21 PM
Website says 11.8 HP. I'm a novice looking for a first bike. Is it just me or does 11.8 HP seem a tad low for 169cc?

The simple answer is "No".  That's about right for the technology being used. 
Really even on the pretty good side of things.  Since those have FI too so your MPG should be noticeably better than my old S200 that used similar tech & displacement with a carb.
Should be good for 60-65ish mph @ STP in the flats in the real world depending on a few factors.
Probably a bit better.  Might be improved by using Dr. Pulley's or different rollers, but probably not. SYM sets things up pretty good from the factory IMHO.

https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/others/2015-2018-sym-fiddle-iii-200i-ar176190.html (https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/others/2015-2018-sym-fiddle-iii-200i-ar176190.html)
Pretty straightforward review. Really I think they're OK scoots if you're doing the small wheeled retro look and don't want to pay for a Ve$$pa.

Cheers
Tromper
Title: Re: Horsepower for Fiddle III 200i
Post by: yodaismycopilot on April 07, 2018, 04:49:35 PM
So long as you're comparing apples to apples, the HP numbers of the 2 valve 169cc engine aren't low...

...You may have noticed the SYM HD 200 (171cc) has 15.2 HP, but it has a 4 valve cylinder head

 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PXD_AvKbCMg (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PXD_AvKbCMg)

Honda makes a motorcycle called the VFR800 and it uses a 'stone age' version of 'VTEC' (Honda's name for variable valve timing) where at lower RPM, 2 of the 4 valves for each cylinder remain closed (effectively making the engine a 2 valves per cylinder design)... Enjoy your 2 valve cylinder head advantage, for its rocket off the line, starts...😜

...Okay, so we know a small displacement engine with a CVT, spends its life screaming at high RPM...

Upon further examination of the video title 'DOHC vs OHV' (as if DOHC automatically means 4 valve heads...🙃)  the Engineering Explained guy posted, I have to add this  http://www.chinonthetank.com/2012/12/how-cb450-torsion-bars-work/ (http://www.chinonthetank.com/2012/12/how-cb450-torsion-bars-work/) DOHC with 2 valve heads...😉 But what really made this engine unique is the way the valves get closed.. 🙄  Take that, Ducati! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ocfIYUc5bpU (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ocfIYUc5bpU)

Taking engines to thermonuclear proportions, this was Honda's attempt to compete against 2 stroke racing engines, after they were denied a bend in the rules to make a 4 stroke 500cc V8... http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-only-oval-piston-dual-con-rod.html (http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-only-oval-piston-dual-con-rod.html)

Thank you!
Title: Re: Horsepower for Fiddle III 200i
Post by: yodaismycopilot on April 07, 2018, 04:50:08 PM
Website says 11.8 HP. I'm a novice looking for a first bike. Is it just me or does 11.8 HP seem a tad low for 169cc?

The simple answer is "No".  That's about right for the technology being used. 
Really even on the pretty good side of things.  Since those have FI too so your MPG should be noticeably better than my old S200 that used similar tech & displacement with a carb.
Should be good for 60-65ish mph @ STP in the flats in the real world depending on a few factors.
Probably a bit better.  Might be improved by using Dr. Pulley's or different rollers, but probably not. SYM sets things up pretty good from the factory IMHO.

https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/others/2015-2018-sym-fiddle-iii-200i-ar176190.html (https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/others/2015-2018-sym-fiddle-iii-200i-ar176190.html)
Pretty straightforward review. Really I think they're OK scoots if you're doing the small wheeled retro look and don't want to pay for a Ve$$pa.

Cheers
Tromper

Thank you!