Author Topic: Poor front brake performance?  (Read 6981 times)

gitsum

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2012, 04:23:13 PM »
Not KYMCO compatible real KYMCO pads.

Yes, I got that.  The pads were advertised as an upgrade for the People S 200 also, so unless they are real lame they should have at least the same performance as Kymco OEM pads.  You realize Kymco doesn't actually manufacture the pads themselves, they have one of the major brake pad suppliers make them for Kymco.  And yes, even with the same caliper a larger or different rotor can make a difference, so can a larger master cylinder :)

So better brake pads might improve the performance of the HD200's front braking capability, but I doubt seriously if it is going to magically improve it to awesome stopping power.  More than a couple of people here have noticed a lack of expected performance on the HD200's front brake.

If you have an HD200 you could simply swap the pads out with the People S 200 and see if it makes a difference, it only takes one socket, two bolts and about 5 minutes ;)

« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 04:32:16 PM by gitsum »

scosgt

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2012, 04:49:56 PM »
I know someone makes their pads, BUT I don't know who.

My brakes are fresh. Not changing them right now. You try it, you have the complaint.

gitsum

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2012, 06:05:35 PM »
My brakes are fresh. Not changing them right now. You try it, you have the complaint.

Not a problem. I thought you might say that ;)

Like I said, I already have some different brake pads on the way, even though my 2012 HD200 EVO only has 200 miles on it ;D

scosgt

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2012, 06:42:03 PM »
FIRST of all.
Having changed my pads numerous times (every 1500 miles here in NY, too much stop and go) it takes more than 200 miles to break in a new rotor and brake pads. They WILL get better.

Second:
When you change the pads, take some very very fine sandpaper, like wetsand 600, and gently sand that rotor just a little. Hold the paper on a block and rotate the wheel. If you don't do this, the rotor may cut the new pads, causing poor braking action.

Third:
The pads on the KYMCO came from a KYMCO dealer and are KYMCO marked. I have no idea of the specs. I had a China scoot with 16" wheels and I used EBCO replacement pads. They ate the rotor in less than 100 miles. Never again. I stick with factory pads.
But, if you want better braking action, spend the $20 on a set of KYMCO pads. They are the exact same design and will interchange. Maybe they are made of a better material. The KYMCO pads are certainly high quality.
When I say the KYMCO gets better braking action, there is NO DOUBT that the brakes are more "grabby". I don't mean it stops shorter (weight), I mean you get more bite when you squeeze the lever. Since they use the same caliper, it seems to me the only real variables are the rotor and pads. I doubt a KYMCO rotor would fit, but try the pads.


gitsum

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2012, 09:05:10 PM »
I already gently sanded the rotor and the stock brake pads :P

Now you have me paranoid that the replacement pads might eat the rotor up :(

They are listed as organic/non-sintered Kevlar Carbon and said to be easy on the rotor (I don't believe everything I read!).

Were the EBC brake pads you tried sintered-metallic?

You have convinced me to give the Kymco OEM pads a try. If I don't or can't upgrade to the HD2 caliper, I will order a set and compare them to both the stock and aftermarket pads and see what works the best.

scosgt

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2012, 10:15:05 PM »
I don't know what they were made of, but they destroyed the rotor, which only had about 1000 miles on it. OK, it was Chinese. But still.
And getting that rotor off took over 6 hours. Hex head screws, which stripped the heads out as soon as I put a wrench on each one. Had to drill them all out. Total PITA. Don't ever want to do that again.
The EBC pads actually warped the rotor!
Maybe the heat was too much or something. That bike had very small pads, like on a Vespa.
Since then I only use factory pads, and have not had any further rotor issues (even on that Chinese bike).
But if you look at the front brakes on a KYMCO, they are about the same. Identical caliper that says "KYMCO" on it. Identical pads. The brake action is just way better. If the pads don't do it, it could have something to do with the master cylinder, although I can lock up the front brakes on the HD no problem, just the feel is different, not so grabby, need to squeeze harder to get the same results.

gitsum

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2012, 09:16:41 PM »
OK, got the new pads on.  It does make a significant difference.  The brakes went from barely adequate but kinda scary at higher speeds, to decent and a little weak at higher speeds but not scary ;)

After hearing more than one person complain about EBC pads chewing up rotors, I got these instead:


It may be that only the sintered are chewing up rotors and maybe not the Kevlar/Organic, but I choose to try something different just in case.
I tested them on a 25 mile two-up higher speed run, purposely using the front brake heavily.  Of course they improved a little as they started to bed in, and the rotor looks fine so far (it's a little early to be sure).

So now I think the braking capability of the front is tolerable for normal or even spirited riding,  but still nothing that makes me feel confident enough to want to run out and tackle a twisty road very aggressively using a lot of hard braking ;)    Kinda of a shame, 'cuz the tight handling and the willingness of the engine beckons one to run the HD200 hard :(

I still plan on looking into the HD2 front caliper as a possible upgrade, or anything else that might work.


InAFog

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2012, 10:33:15 PM »
gitsum, you might have something there with a number of us ordering parts out of Taiwan. The harder (much) and longer I ride my HD the more that horrible front brake scares me. At this point in time I would gladly (well, maybe not gladly) spend the $200 or so it probably costs to obtain the dual-pot caliper off the HD2. If Ooty's following this post maybe he can find out through the Taiwan reps what we're looking at here. I can't stress highly enough how much this very capable, sweet-handling (especially with the Avon Viper Strykes), 70+mph scoot needs a MUCH better front brake! Ooty, can you help us out? We could just commit to Chris (pay for) how many HD owners would pony-up for the caliper and then have Ooty ship them???

gitsum

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2012, 08:16:14 AM »
You can count me in!

In the meantime you can try out those brakepads, they were ony $10.95 shipped.  I have now lowered the fluid level on the rear to about 2/3 in the reservoir and combined with the new pads, it feels "tolerable".
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 08:22:49 AM by gitsum »

ootscoot

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2012, 08:40:24 AM »
Hi Guys, sorry, I have been off this forum for a bit - it seems to be working fine now.
About the HD 200 front caliper - yes, I will look into it. I do have the dual-pot calipers for the Citycom 300i, they are the same as used on the Fiddle ll. I will see if they can be modified to work on the HD. Also will look into the HD 200i front caliper.
I am using the EBC replacement from Perfect Brakes - organic/kevlar with no damage to the rotor, and with improved performance from stock. 1200 mi on them.
Ooty's Scooters - Santa Barbara, CA.
SYM Dealer, SYM rider, SYM owner - got them all!

gitsum

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2012, 09:16:05 AM »
Thanks ootscoot ;D

homebrew

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2012, 05:34:24 PM »
I just replaced my pads, 2008 HD 200, at about 11300 miles with EBC brake pads.  The initial ride around the block felt good, we will see in a couple of hundred miles how they feel.

InAFog

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2012, 01:35:18 AM »
ootscoot, Think you might get back to this post when you find out about a dual-pot caliper for our beloved HD's? I got a feeling you might put together quite an order... Can you post your number or a contact for your business? (I already know how to get a hold of you)  Thanx!

ootscoot

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2012, 10:36:51 AM »
The dual pot caliper used on the Wolf and the Citycom is not adaptable for the HD200. I have Brembo 2 piston calipers on my Vectrix - will try and see if they are compatible.
Ooty's Scooters - Santa Barbara, CA.
SYM Dealer, SYM rider, SYM owner - got them all!

jesse in cbus

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Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2017, 11:06:24 AM »
I read the thread and most were looking for a new two pot piston up front; but, what if the rotor and brake bracket from the kymco people s200 was used? my reasoning is that the people has the same caliper, or at least same pad, but has a larger rotor. the entire brake assembly might be required.