Author Topic: Poor front brake performance?  (Read 7402 times)

InAFog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2012, 12:01:17 PM »
Chris, I'm looking for the rear caliper off the HD200. Can you get that and how much?

ootscoot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1520
  • Another Dealer hard at work...
    • View Profile
    • ootyscooters.com
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2012, 02:25:56 PM »
Yes, I can get them, but they cost around $195. plus shipping
Ooty's Scooters - Santa Barbara, CA.
SYM Dealer, SYM rider, SYM owner - got them all!

InAFog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2012, 03:00:14 PM »
OUCH!

ootscoot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1520
  • Another Dealer hard at work...
    • View Profile
    • ootyscooters.com
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2012, 05:57:19 PM »
I agree - parts and accessories prices are more than they should be - my understanding is that these bikes don't need much in the way of parts - like brake calipers - so to get one flown in from Taiwan can cost a bunch. Even from Canada, they are pricey
Ooty's Scooters - Santa Barbara, CA.
SYM Dealer, SYM rider, SYM owner - got them all!

gitsum

  • Guest
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2012, 10:44:54 PM »
If you are going to fabricate a bracket, you don't really need a Sym rear brake caliper.  Besides it's right mounted and the front is left mounted.  If you pick a brake caliper that has a larger mounting tab, then you could probably just re-drill the holes to fit, and use washers as spacers on the caliper or the actual disc itself to line everything up correctly.

InAFog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2012, 01:56:43 AM »
Good point, gitsum, you're right on top of things...

gitsum

  • Guest
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2012, 09:04:49 AM »
Finding a somewhat compatible caliper with a larger mounting tab could possibly mean there would be clearance for a larger diameter disc...

steve_rolfeca

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
    • View Profile
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2012, 05:03:37 PM »
My experience matches gitsum's.

The front brake was pretty horrible, until I did a flush and bleed with good quality hi-temp fluid. Now, it's adequate, although the stock pads still feel somewhat wooden.

You're never going to get into the "excellent" category with a 1970's-tech single-piston caliper, but I imagine the EBC pads would get you a notch closer.

gitsum

  • Guest
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2012, 12:03:43 PM »
I've been shopping around for a two piston caliper for the front.  I'm just not sure how to find one that is compatible.  I guess I should just think about making a custom mounting bracket and then almost anything should work?  

While the performance of the front brake is "adequate", the very powerful rear brake makes the front feel weak in comparison.  I actually lowered the fluid level in the rear a bit and it still feels pretty unbalanced.  The other day I was riding two up with the wife (280 lbs total) at an indicated 70 mph.  Got on the brakes pretty good just to see how they performed at higher speeds with two riders.  Let's just say the front was not very confidence inspiring and left something to be desired :(   Yeah, they worked and the scooter slowed down, but a high speed emergency braking maneuver might take more distance than you have...

« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 12:07:31 PM by gitsum »

InAFog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2012, 02:26:02 AM »
Recently I went to the Taiwan SYM site and found that from what I could tell 16 of the 24 scooters shown have dual-pot calipers on the front brake, 10 of them 50cc scoots! I used their "contact" link and they did get right back with me...and told me to contact Lance. So I forwarded my correspondence to them and I'll see what happens. There's an HD2 (200) over in Europe that looks a little more sinister with a dual-pot caliper up front. The more (and harder) I ride my HD the less I like the horrible brake on this, and the more it scares me. If Lance or SYM isn't willing to help out this VERY vocal enthusiast I'll probably source out a dual-pot caliper and fabricate a mount. I just can't fathom why an engineer would put a single-pot brake on a scoot that does over 70mph!

gitsum

  • Guest
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2012, 08:26:38 AM »
That would be great if Sym had a compatible front caliper from another model that gave the HD200 the peformance it desperately needs.  At this point if it costs $200 like a lot of OEM calipers do, I'll be more than happy to pay for it.

It's a shame the HD200 has such an obvious shortcoming,  because everything else about it is near perfect. ;D

gitsum

  • Guest
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2012, 10:13:16 AM »
There's an HD2 (200) over in Europe that looks a little more sinister with a dual-pot caliper up front.


I think you're on to something!

HD2


EVO


The literature says it has a 220mm front disc, the same diameter as one on the HD200 EVO.  Eyeballing the dimensions, it looks very close to the 60mm spacing for the fork mounting bolts on the EVO.  For that matter even the disc bolt pattern looks very close to the 70mm spacing found on ours...   Though besides the "wave" style the actual disc probably has exactly the same performance since it is the same size.

Maybe Cam can check this out and see if the mounting bolt measurements are identical?  Hmmm, I was also wondering if the clutch bell on the HD125 was the same as the HD200's?  We could probably save a lot on shipping from Taiwan if several of us got together and ordered at the same time, providing the part is compatible ;)

Taking a closer look at the HD2 caliper, I'm pretty sure it is the same caliper that is on my Wolf.  They simply moved it to the left side and changed the fork bolt pattern which is a little further apart on the Wolf.   The front brake on the Wolf is awesome, but it does utilize a larger diameter disc and weighs 50 lbs less stock than the HD200 EVO..  That being said, two up riding with aggressive braking feels more powerful on the Wolf than single rider braking on the HD200...
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 11:36:46 AM by gitsum »

scosgt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1303
    • View Profile
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2012, 11:43:43 AM »
My KYMCO People S 200 takes the exact same brake pads. The caliper is probably made by the same OEM.
The rotor is bigger.
The front brake on the KYMCO is awesome.
The bike IS 50 pounds lighter, but that should not affect the braking action that much.
So I suspect the pads may be at fault.
My HD just got new brakes,
but someone order a set of KYMCO pads (readily available) but buy the KYMCO brand and pop them onto the SYM and see if it makes a difference.
The KYMCO front brake is VERY grabby.
Knowing that it is the same caliper means the only variables are the pads and the rotor, but keep in mind the grab area on the rotor is the same since the pads are the same design and size.
So unless it is the actual rotor material that makes the difference, I say try the KYMCO pads.
There are several places on the net they can be ordered.

gitsum

  • Guest
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2012, 12:47:12 PM »
I ordered a set of aftermarket pads that are supposed to give better brake performance and feel, they are also listed as compatible with the People S 200.  I'm hoping that will help :-\      Judging by the upgraded caliper on the HD2 (and the fact that they specifically mentioned braking distances), I'm thinking the extra weight and acceleration (compared to the People S 200) is just too much for the HD200 single pot caliper to effectively handle.  The upgrade to rear discs on the HD200 helped overall braking performance, but now that makes the front feel even less effective in comparison.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 12:51:45 PM by gitsum »

scosgt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1303
    • View Profile
Re: Poor front brake performance?
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2012, 04:02:24 PM »
Not KYMCO compatible real KYMCO pads.