Author Topic: Trouble starting  (Read 247 times)

_codybarker_

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Trouble starting
« on: September 27, 2017, 06:23:09 PM »
Hey everybody,

I have a 2014 Wolf with about 14,500 miles on it and I've generally kept up with the routine maintenance.  Recently the bike has been hard to start. It's warm here in Austin, TX so using the choke doesn't help resolve the issue.  I find that using the starter for 4-5 seconds and giving the throttle about 1/4-1/3 turn will usually get it going but only after a few tries and the bike will want to stall if I don't keep giving it some gas.  It slowly comes to life with a bit more of a rumble once it really turns over.  I tend to rev it to 3-4k for 20 seconds or so and that generally gets it steady.  Any less and it'll probably stall. After warming up (or whatever its doing) it idles fine and rides fine but that usually takes a minute or two of driving or revving. I haven't cleaned the carb or jets, ever, other than running some sea foam through the gas tank a couple times. I changed the plug about 1 year/7,000 miles ago, and I recently changed the oil and cleaned the air filter. I've had some real trouble getting it to start on very hot days when I had nowhere else to put the bike but in the sun under it's cover (like 100*F+ weather, not my ideal situation). Otherwise it's generally 90*F+ every day and yesterday I had to ride it through a heavy downpour for 20+ minutes.  The hard starts have been happening prior to the rain and probably over the past week or so.  Any thoughts on where to start with this?

Thanks

ktran

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 07:56:00 PM »
Did these starting troubles happen to coincide with your cleaning the air filter, perchance?


Hey everybody,

I have a 2014 Wolf with about 14,500 miles on it and I've generally kept up with the routine maintenance.  Recently the bike has been hard to start. It's warm here in Austin, TX so using the choke doesn't help resolve the issue.  I find that using the starter for 4-5 seconds and giving the throttle about 1/4-1/3 turn will usually get it going but only after a few tries and the bike will want to stall if I don't keep giving it some gas.  It slowly comes to life with a bit more of a rumble once it really turns over.  I tend to rev it to 3-4k for 20 seconds or so and that generally gets it steady.  Any less and it'll probably stall. After warming up (or whatever its doing) it idles fine and rides fine but that usually takes a minute or two of driving or revving. I haven't cleaned the carb or jets, ever, other than running some sea foam through the gas tank a couple times. I changed the plug about 1 year/7,000 miles ago, and I recently changed the oil and cleaned the air filter. I've had some real trouble getting it to start on very hot days when I had nowhere else to put the bike but in the sun under it's cover (like 100*F+ weather, not my ideal situation). Otherwise it's generally 90*F+ every day and yesterday I had to ride it through a heavy downpour for 20+ minutes.  The hard starts have been happening prior to the rain and probably over the past week or so.  Any thoughts on where to start with this?

Thanks

_codybarker_

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 08:12:04 PM »
Hey ktran,

I cleaned the air filter right before having the bike shipped to Texas and I put on at least a few hundred miles before I noticed the issue.  I have a feeling it's something else but I'm not sure about that. I'm about to move back to Oregon and I'm gonna bring the bike in the back of my buddy's truck, but if I have a moment I might open up the airbox to take a look inside.

IB

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 09:09:20 PM »
My bike has done this periodically, and it's a 2017 with 4600 miles. Usually it's just some gas that had some crap in it. I throw some extra techron in it and it clears right up.
2017 Sym Wolf Classic

1986 Honda VF500F  Street fighter!

_codybarker_

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 09:19:09 PM »
When hurricane Harvey came through we ran out of gas for a bit and I had to throw in about a half gallon of regular unleaded to make it home.  I only rode on it for about 5-10 miles and then spiked the tank with seafoam and eventually filled it up with Premium before riding it again. Who knows the quality of the pumps at the time since everyone was running them dry. Maybe it picked up some bad gas.

BeebBobE

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2017, 05:32:47 AM »
Pull your fuel filter and dump it in a bowl of gas, blow it out and put it back on! Check your air cleaner and see if it clogging anywhere, clean it! Quit dumpin' additives into your tank! I never run premium gas , only regular! Check your spark plug gap! Dump your float bowl and see if there is sediment in the bowl, careful not to mess with your float levels! If you are going to Oregon you might need to lower or raise your carb needle, just sayin!  One of the reasons i say check for sediment or debris is cause you can get a bad tank of gas or if there was dirt on the nozzle after a rain and that can accidentally get in your tank, just a few thoughts!
Ride like a Klingon....

c3powil

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2017, 12:51:12 PM »
So you use 87 octane and not the 90 octane recommended by SYM?

_codybarker_

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2017, 03:32:00 PM »
Pull your fuel filter and dump it in a bowl of gas, blow it out and put it back on! Check your air cleaner and see if it clogging anywhere, clean it! Quit dumpin' additives into your tank! I never run premium gas , only regular! Check your spark plug gap! Dump your float bowl and see if there is sediment in the bowl, careful not to mess with your float levels! If you are going to Oregon you might need to lower or raise your carb needle, just sayin!  One of the reasons i say check for sediment or debris is cause you can get a bad tank of gas or if there was dirt on the nozzle after a rain and that can accidentally get in your tank, just a few thoughts!

Thanks BeebBob! I'll do a full check on these things when I get the chance.

Papa Bear

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2017, 04:27:56 PM »
My Wolf runs on regular fuel ... runs good on mid-grade (89) .... and runs great on premium (91)

I agree, don't add chemicals to bad gas - dump it and get good fuel.
I regularly add a little fuel injector cleaner in the gas and about 400:1 ratio 2 cycle oil in the gas (1oz/tank)
Get your motor runnin' .. get out on the highway.

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ChairmanMaose

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2017, 11:24:56 PM »
My Wolf runs on regular fuel ... runs good on mid-grade (89) .... and runs great on premium (91)

I agree, don't add chemicals to bad gas - dump it and get good fuel.
I regularly add a little fuel injector cleaner in the gas and about 400:1 ratio 2 cycle oil in the gas (1oz/tank)
Hey pa, do you think the ethanol in the gas these days is damaging the engine?

c3powil

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2017, 06:48:39 AM »
That's my issue. There are lots of places around that sell no ethanol fuel, but it's usually 87 octane. So I'm between premium gas with ethanol, or low octane with no ethanol...

Papa Bear

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2017, 10:21:57 AM »
I believe our bikes are built with materials to handle E fuels but E fuels are low(er) in lubricity (not slippery).
Adding a little (300-400:1) 2 cycle oil TC-W3 (burn clean) increases the lubricity to reduce wear IMHO.
Get your motor runnin' .. get out on the highway.

Check out http://www.hogsforhospice.com/

ktran

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2017, 12:09:09 PM »
Okay, back to the original question, about trouble starting.

Sorry to get "back to basics" a bit here, but an engine requires 4 things to run: fuel, air, compression, and spark. If it has all four of those things, it will run. It has no choice in the matter. Assuming that you have spark and compression, any starting and running problems will come down to the fuel and air mixture. Since your bike was already running well until recently, I'd not want to mess with things like the idle air mixture.

Things to check:

  • Make sure your air intake isn't blocked in some way. The air intake to the airbox is located under the seat. In the Facebook group, one person actually had the piece of seat rubber come loose and block the intake holes. Similarly, make sure you didn't accidentally leave a shop rag or something in there.
  • If your bike still has the smog control bits installed, try disconnecting the gas tank vent tube from the charcoal canister. If your bike is "desmogged," make sure the vent tube/gas tank vent isn't blocked in some way. Sometimes rainwater or road dirt can block the little tube, and so the gas tank won't be able to vent.
  • Have you checked the puke tube? The puke tube feeds blowby gases and oil vapour from the crankcase into the airbox, where it condenses into a little foam element and drips into the puke tube. If your puke tube is overfull, the resulting oil/water mix will spill into the airbox itself, which can cause hard starting.
  • Maybe you do need choke. For me, anyways, if the temps dip below 20C/68F, or sometimes even when it's the first start of the day, I'll usually need a bit of choke. It's not an all-or-nothing affair, either. You find the choke position that gets you an idle until the engine "ticks over" on its own.
  • Air filter foam oiling. Foam filters are basically a frame to hold filter oil, which does the actual air filtering. If you use too much oil, the engine will run rich (more fuel than air), and if you don't oil it at all, you'll run lean (the opposite). Neither is good.
  • Idle jet. If you're cleaning out your carburetor, this is the jet most likely to clog first. It's teeny-tiny.

Some other points:

- I use Seafoam as a fuel stabiliser for winter storage, and occasionally to "flush" out the fueling system, but it's more of a preventative thing than a problem-fixer. It's rarely ever "the answer."
- Our engines have a not-so-high compression ratio, so super gas might not be strictly necessary, but I use it all the time anyways. Remember that there's always a good amount of fuel in the hose, which will almost always be 87 octane, even if you pay for 91. The takeaway is to just not sweat it too hard.
- I don't feel that using 2-stroke oil as a fuel additive is necessary, but I respect PB's opinions, generally.
- Other advice from users here like making sure your fuel filters are clean and etc. are also good.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 12:11:39 PM by ktran »

Papa Bear

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 12:45:52 PM »
I seldom fill my Wolf at the gas pumps.
I take the van and fill a gas can with premium ... I run the first ~3L (qt) into the van to purge the line then fill the can up - I use the can to fill the bike.
As I said above my Wolf will "run" on all grades of fuel but the higher the octane the better it runs.

My Suzuki S40 doesn't seem to care what you feed it so it gets regular. Regular is recommended in the Suzuki manual.
Get your motor runnin' .. get out on the highway.

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bpadar

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Re: Trouble starting
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2017, 07:35:35 PM »
I just bought a brand new Wolf Classic 150 (also here in Austin) just last week, and I have the same issues starting it.  Have to give it a good amount of throttle while using the auto start for about 3-4 seconds.  Once it fires up, I have to lightly rev it for about 20 seconds or it will die when I start driving.  It's around 75-80 degrees here if it matters.  I'm concerned this will only get worse when the colder temps arrive.  Also, I can't get it to start if I pull the choke.  Seems to run well after a couple minutes though and idles nicely.