Author Topic: How much should you pay new?  (Read 314 times)

Moleary

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How much should you pay new?
« on: June 08, 2017, 05:02:10 PM »
Hey all - my friend is looking to purchase her first bike, a Sym Wolf, and I'm hoping y'all can help her as she goes to negotiate with the dealer. How much should she expect to pay?  I can't imagine paying MSRP for anything but I don't know what the dealer typically will sell them for.

I ride a Streetglide (HD) and know I wouldn't pay anywhere near sticker for one... what should her goal be?

Thanks in advance! 

Mr. OX

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2017, 05:26:19 PM »
I have seen a dealer offer a new wolf for $2,800.00 as a sale prices. I doubt he was  losing money! I can only guess how motivated your dealer might be. I have no idea what dealer cost is but I doubt they will drop the price too much on a bike that doesn't cost that much to begin with.
2012 Sym Wolf, 1974 MZ TS250, early 1950s Soviet M72, 1967 Triumph Bonneville, 1971 BMW R75/5, 1978 BMW R100s.

ktran

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017, 08:06:10 PM »
The margins on small bikes really isn't that high, at the dealer level. Think about why a Honda Grom costs not too much less than a CB300F: there's a certain minimum cost for a new bike.

Now, the stories about people picking up new bikes off the floor for less than MSRP usually involve bikes that have been sitting around on the shop floor for longer than they really needed to. Space for that bike that doesn't sell is space that can't be used for another bike that can sell, etc.

I can say pretty confidently that if you get a Brand New 2017 Wolf for less than MSRP, either the dealer is losing money, or the distributor has given them a rebate. And once you buy it, it's like a new car: the value falls off a cliff :)

AMAC1680

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017, 08:15:31 PM »
Brand new 2017  $2999.00.
Negotiate dealer fees etc but good dealers don't mark down these bikes.
Look for a leftover if you want a deal.

Best of luck, great little cycle.

AMAC

BeebBobE

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2017, 10:54:33 AM »
offer them about 900 bucks and see how it goes! Consider part availability and consider how far you are from dealer and whether they will continue making parts for it in the future and where you will get them! Also consider whether they will give you a proper shop manual for the said motorcycle that is up to date!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 10:58:52 AM by BeebBobE »
Ride like a Klingon....

redridinghood

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2017, 10:32:03 AM »
Quote
offer them about 900 bucks and see how it goes!

Be patient until these https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zG_loEyYiGw get to azUSA and offer them 2x that much...they might take it.

Not near as pretty as the SYM Wolf..we'll see what the production models look like when they get here

Bensky

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2017, 02:17:28 PM »
Short answer: don't buy new.

There were only 2 dealers in my area that had a Wolf. One guy wanted $3500 out the door for a 2017 model straight from the Sym factory, and another wanted $3300 for a 2016 model in average condition, and neither were willing to bring the price down. Never pay that much for this particular bike. It's well made and looks awesome, but it's limited in terms of its usefulness for US roads.

Here's why:
- It's a 150. You can try taking it on the highway, but it won't be fun. This bike is happy around 35 mph, and really doesn't feel stable at all past 45-55 mph despite a claimed max speed of 65 mph.
- The parts network for this bike is near nonexistent except for the stuff sold on scooterseals.com (highly recommended btw!), so that's going to be an inconvenience for you. Even finding a replacement battery in the US was a bit tough in terms of finding one at a reasonable price.

So that said, while I'm loving riding this bike given that I don't commute on the highway, it's worth no more than $2000, even new. I'd highly recommend buying used. I got one on craigslist with 2900 miles for $1700 OTD and that's about the upper limit of what I'd pay for this bike.

ChairmanMaose

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2017, 10:19:23 PM »
Short answer: don't buy new.

There were only 2 dealers in my area that had a Wolf. One guy wanted $3500 out the door for a 2017 model straight from the Sym factory, and another wanted $3300 for a 2016 model in average condition, and neither were willing to bring the price down. Never pay that much for this particular bike. It's well made and looks awesome, but it's limited in terms of its usefulness for US roads.

Here's why:
- It's a 150. You can try taking it on the highway, but it won't be fun. This bike is happy around 35 mph, and really doesn't feel stable at all past 45-55 mph despite a claimed max speed of 65 mph.
- The parts network for this bike is near nonexistent except for the stuff sold on scooterseals.com (highly recommended btw!), so that's going to be an inconvenience for you. Even finding a replacement battery in the US was a bit tough in terms of finding one at a reasonable price.

So that said, while I'm loving riding this bike given that I don't commute on the highway, it's worth no more than $2000, even new. I'd highly recommend buying used. I got one on craigslist with 2900 miles for $1700 OTD and that's about the upper limit of what I'd pay for this bike.
I won't argue with your thoughts on the bike being overpriced but I'll disagree on the stability of the bike at at 55 mph and above. I feel the bike happiest between 55 and 60 mph. That's the bikes sweet spot, all day.  Any higher over that and there's really nothing left in the engine but I found it stable at 70 mph the other day. I was curious what it would top out at and how it would feel and it was just fine. 70 mph is obviously not good for an engine that size for long stretches, it won't happen again.

The bike is a good used buy. They depreciate because the brand is unknown and it's hard to sell small displacement motorcycles in North America.

BeebBobE

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2017, 06:58:41 AM »
I rode mine home the first day flat out, in the rain,  on the highway for 200 miles!  It was a butt pucker around some semi's and not much fun in a pretty big storm but, i have never found a bike yet that i liked riding in the rain! Not had a problem once figured out the setup on the thing. I don't like the idea about not getting just plain parts for it and having to re-engineer stuff for it or go to the junk yard to find stuff off other bikes to use for it! If I had it to do over again, nah, I wouldn't make the purchase and go with a local Jap or Harley dealer model or a craiglist buy of a used known model.  They basically have blown their model off here in the USA and lost a customer! It's an ok bike just not supported! Hence the non support from customer buys!
Ride like a Klingon....

Mr. OX

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 08:24:13 AM »
I fit Wolfie with a different front sprocket and regularly ride on the highway to work at 65mph with zero stability issues. I even had the bar end weight off so I could mount mirrors. I rode in all weather too- except ice!
2012 Sym Wolf, 1974 MZ TS250, early 1950s Soviet M72, 1967 Triumph Bonneville, 1971 BMW R75/5, 1978 BMW R100s.

piperpilot32

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2017, 10:44:12 AM »
Short answer: don't buy new.

There were only 2 dealers in my area that had a Wolf. One guy wanted $3500 out the door for a 2017 model straight from the Sym factory, and another wanted $3300 for a 2016 model in average condition, and neither were willing to bring the price down. Never pay that much for this particular bike. It's well made and looks awesome, but it's limited in terms of its usefulness for US roads.

Here's why:
- It's a 150. You can try taking it on the highway, but it won't be fun. This bike is happy around 35 mph, and really doesn't feel stable at all past 45-55 mph despite a claimed max speed of 65 mph.
- The parts network for this bike is near nonexistent except for the stuff sold on scooterseals.com (highly recommended btw!), so that's going to be an inconvenience for you. Even finding a replacement battery in the US was a bit tough in terms of finding one at a reasonable price.

So that said, while I'm loving riding this bike given that I don't commute on the highway, it's worth no more than $2000, even new. I'd highly recommend buying used. I got one on craigslist with 2900 miles for $1700 OTD and that's about the upper limit of what I'd pay for this bike.
I won't argue with your thoughts on the bike being overpriced but I'll disagree on the stability of the bike at at 55 mph and above. I feel the bike happiest between 55 and 60 mph. That's the bikes sweet spot, all day.  Any higher over that and there's really nothing left in the engine but I found it stable at 70 mph the other day. I was curious what it would top out at and how it would feel and it was just fine. 70 mph is obviously not good for an engine that size for long stretches, it won't happen again.

The bike is a good used buy. They depreciate because the brand is unknown and it's hard to sell small displacement motorcycles in North America.

The usability of the bike depends on a few things. The layout of your geographical location, and your intended use. Sure, in the grand scheme of things small CC bikes aren't nearly as popular in the states as they are elsewhere. But, that's not to say there isn't a market for them. Take a look at the Grom, or the Z125. Those bikes are selling like crazy, and they'll barely break 60mph. The owners know this, but still buy, and ride the crap out of them. The interesting thing is, I ride a Kawasaki Eliminator 125. That bike has almost no history, nobody bought it, and it was only made for 12 years or so. When the Grom came to the states, they were on backorder!! I had a talk with a dealer about this while checking out a Grom. He said the difference between the two is the "Cool" factor, and the availability of aftermarket/custom parts. So in the end That plays a very important role, as I'm sure you all know. I came very close to getting a Wolf 150, but instead I picked up my 2007 Eliminator for $950. It had 1,325 miles on it. That was two years ago. She now has a little over 20,000 on her. That's all back road cruising at around 40-45 mph.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 10:46:13 AM by piperpilot32 »

Bensky

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2017, 02:23:28 AM »
Short answer: don't buy new.

There were only 2 dealers in my area that had a Wolf. One guy wanted $3500 out the door for a 2017 model straight from the Sym factory, and another wanted $3300 for a 2016 model in average condition, and neither were willing to bring the price down. Never pay that much for this particular bike. It's well made and looks awesome, but it's limited in terms of its usefulness for US roads.

Here's why:
- It's a 150. You can try taking it on the highway, but it won't be fun. This bike is happy around 35 mph, and really doesn't feel stable at all past 45-55 mph despite a claimed max speed of 65 mph.
- The parts network for this bike is near nonexistent except for the stuff sold on scooterseals.com (highly recommended btw!), so that's going to be an inconvenience for you. Even finding a replacement battery in the US was a bit tough in terms of finding one at a reasonable price.

So that said, while I'm loving riding this bike given that I don't commute on the highway, it's worth no more than $2000, even new. I'd highly recommend buying used. I got one on craigslist with 2900 miles for $1700 OTD and that's about the upper limit of what I'd pay for this bike.
I won't argue with your thoughts on the bike being overpriced but I'll disagree on the stability of the bike at at 55 mph and above. I feel the bike happiest between 55 and 60 mph. That's the bikes sweet spot, all day.  Any higher over that and there's really nothing left in the engine but I found it stable at 70 mph the other day. I was curious what it would top out at and how it would feel and it was just fine. 70 mph is obviously not good for an engine that size for long stretches, it won't happen again.

The bike is a good used buy. They depreciate because the brand is unknown and it's hard to sell small displacement motorcycles in North America.
Agreed. It's definitely a good used buy.

RE: top speed -- fair enough, but I've never ever been able to push mine past 55 mph unless I'm going down a hill, even in 5th gear. At that point, I'm getting tons of vibration through the handlebars and the bike feels extremely 'floaty'. It could be due to the sprocket I have in mine - the previous owner mentioned he changed it from the original one in order to make 1st gear a bit taller. That might have affected the top speed or how the bike handles at speed. Not sure.

ChairmanMaose

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2017, 05:52:49 PM »
Short answer: don't buy new.

There were only 2 dealers in my area that had a Wolf. One guy wanted $3500 out the door for a 2017 model straight from the Sym factory, and another wanted $3300 for a 2016 model in average condition, and neither were willing to bring the price down. Never pay that much for this particular bike. It's well made and looks awesome, but it's limited in terms of its usefulness for US roads.

Here's why:
- It's a 150. You can try taking it on the highway, but it won't be fun. This bike is happy around 35 mph, and really doesn't feel stable at all past 45-55 mph despite a claimed max speed of 65 mph.
- The parts network for this bike is near nonexistent except for the stuff sold on scooterseals.com (highly recommended btw!), so that's going to be an inconvenience for you. Even finding a replacement battery in the US was a bit tough in terms of finding one at a reasonable price.

So that said, while I'm loving riding this bike given that I don't commute on the highway, it's worth no more than $2000, even new. I'd highly recommend buying used. I got one on craigslist with 2900 miles for $1700 OTD and that's about the upper limit of what I'd pay for this bike.
I won't argue with your thoughts on the bike being overpriced but I'll disagree on the stability of the bike at at 55 mph and above. I feel the bike happiest between 55 and 60 mph. That's the bikes sweet spot, all day.  Any higher over that and there's really nothing left in the engine but I found it stable at 70 mph the other day. I was curious what it would top out at and how it would feel and it was just fine. 70 mph is obviously not good for an engine that size for long stretches, it won't happen again.

The bike is a good used buy. They depreciate because the brand is unknown and it's hard to sell small displacement motorcycles in North America.
Agreed. It's definitely a good used buy.

RE: top speed -- fair enough, but I've never ever been able to push mine past 55 mph unless I'm going down a hill, even in 5th gear. At that point, I'm getting tons of vibration through the handlebars and the bike feels extremely 'floaty'. It could be due to the sprocket I have in mine - the previous owner mentioned he changed it from the original one in order to make 1st gear a bit taller. That might have affected the top speed or how the bike handles at speed. Not sure.
Maybe the bike needs maintenance, because you should be able to hit 60 mph with ease on the flats. Mmm... what do you weigh? are you a big fella?

rick

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2017, 01:58:20 PM »
Short answer: don't buy new.

There were only 2 dealers in my area that had a Wolf. One guy wanted $3500 out the door for a 2017 model straight from the Sym factory, and another wanted $3300 for a 2016 model in average condition, and neither were willing to bring the price down. Never pay that much for this particular bike. It's well made and looks awesome, but it's limited in terms of its usefulness for US roads.

Here's why:
- It's a 150. You can try taking it on the highway, but it won't be fun. This bike is happy around 35 mph, and really doesn't feel stable at all past 45-55 mph despite a claimed max speed of 65 mph.
- The parts network for this bike is near nonexistent except for the stuff sold on scooterseals.com (highly recommended btw!), so that's going to be an inconvenience for you. Even finding a replacement battery in the US was a bit tough in terms of finding one at a reasonable price.

So that said, while I'm loving riding this bike given that I don't commute on the highway, it's worth no more than $2000, even new. I'd highly recommend buying used. I got one on craigslist with 2900 miles for $1700 OTD and that's about the upper limit of what I'd pay for this bike.
I won't argue with your thoughts on the bike being overpriced but I'll disagree on the stability of the bike at at 55 mph and above. I feel the bike happiest between 55 and 60 mph. That's the bikes sweet spot, all day.  Any higher over that and there's really nothing left in the engine but I found it stable at 70 mph the other day. I was curious what it would top out at and how it would feel and it was just fine. 70 mph is obviously not good for an engine that size for long stretches, it won't happen again.

The bike is a good used buy. They depreciate because the brand is unknown and it's hard to sell small displacement motorcycles in North America.
Agreed. It's definitely a good used buy.

RE: top speed -- fair enough, but I've never ever been able to push mine past 55 mph unless I'm going down a hill, even in 5th gear. At that point, I'm getting tons of vibration through the handlebars and the bike feels extremely 'floaty'. It could be due to the sprocket I have in mine - the previous owner mentioned he changed it from the original one in order to make 1st gear a bit taller. That might have affected the top speed or how the bike handles at speed. Not sure.
Maybe the bike needs maintenance, because you should be able to hit 60 mph with ease on the flats. Mmm... what do you weigh? are you a big fella?
Im a big fella 240lbs and 55 is all the wolf can get to with a gorilla and crappy carb.
I had a Grom before and could hit 65 on it after break in! but its fuel injected so everything runs correctly.

Moleary

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Re: How much should you pay new?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2017, 02:33:40 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback - what I gather from this is that there is very little movement in the selling price and that if she can get $200-$300 off the MSRP she's done well.

I was a skeptic about the bike but seeing so many folks here with BMWs and other well engineered bikes in their signature line that are fans of the Wolf makes me a lot more comfortable with what my friend is buying.