Author Topic: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)  (Read 6281 times)

Etamni

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The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« on: July 24, 2015, 08:44:25 PM »
An open letter to Sym:

I want a scooter, but not just any scooter.  Let me tell you about my dream scooter....

First and foremost, it will be capable of taking (and be comfortable for) one or two people (plus stuff) on long trips.  I'm talking about Americans (like myself) who probably eat too much junk food -- two people my weight, plus travel stuff, would overload the rated capacity of my HD 200, although I suspect it wouldn't complain too much.  On my dream scooter, we would be within the rated capacity, preferably with room to spare.

It will have a fuel range of at least 300 miles (almost 500 km); or at least something close to that.  It will be capable of traveling on US interstate highways (legally), and keeping up with traffic, without having to run the engine wide open.  Since you aren't US based, I'll say clearly that I'm talking about highways with a 75 mph speed limit (about 120 kph).  I still want this scooter to get good fuel mileage, of course, but I realize that it might be lower than my HD 200.

I'm not going to specify a particular engine size, since the requirements above are more important than picking some arbitrary number, but the engine should be designed for longevity and manufactured to the highest quality standards possible.

While I would certainly make allowances for the first oil change, future oil changes should be 3000 miles apart (abt 4800 km).  How can anybody take a decent road trip if they have to stop every 1000 km or even every 1000 miles for an oil change?

It will have mounting points for a side car.  No modifications needed, just attach side car and go.  It's OK if there is a cover that needs to be unscrewed or removed, but it should be something an ordinary user can do without dealer support and without using a welder.

Turn signals and brake lights will be modern bright LEDs.

It will have a front (locking) glove box, and marine-quality power supply for charging cell phone, GPS, etc.  It will have a master power switch under the seat (similar to some of your other models).

The fuel tank and filler neck will be metal, not plastic, and designed so that there is no way for an ordinary person to put "too much fuel" into the tank.  In other words, too much fuel would mean fuel pouring out the filler neck, not being siphoned into some other place it doesn't belong.  More bluntly, the CARB features (aka California emissions package) will be designed so as not to siphon fuel into the air box or crank case under any circumstances.

The owner's manual will set new standards for quality.  I'm talking about a manual that, if originally written in another language, is translated by a technical writer who is a native speaker of my language, and who believes that quality and accuracy are the most important aspects of the translation.  This manual will go into great detail about every aspect of my scooter.  Examples include (but are certainly not limited to) detailed instructions for how to adjust headlight angle; how to change a turn signal bulb and which bulb to use for replacement; where and how to change a fuse, along with which fuses are used and what they go to.  It will provide detailed instructions for opening any panel.  It will detail the size and specification and exact location of every nut, bolt, or other fastener used in the scooter.  It will educate the user on how to check or change the oil, how to check the antifreeze, etc.  It will also educate the user on problems to watch for with some effort made to explain what causes them and how to correct them.

The warranty will set new standards in the industry for duration.  Similar to many new cars, basic services (such as oil changes) will be included during the warranty period, and can be completed at any Sym dealer, not just the one where the scooter was purchased.


There's more, but this is a good start.  I suspect others will have a few things to say as well, so be sure to check their comments out as well.

--Regards
Etamni
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 08:47:58 PM by Etamni »
2012 Sym HD200 EVO

Syd

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2015, 08:58:40 PM »
I'd settle for an HD300.  :D

Etamni

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2015, 09:19:01 PM »
I'd settle for an HD300.  :D


They could call it that!  :)
2012 Sym HD200 EVO

ootscoot

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2015, 08:06:31 AM »
Maxsym 400 or Citycom 300i
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 01:10:09 PM by ootscoot »
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sc00ter

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2015, 08:41:30 AM »
Someone makes a direct, easy bolt on (NO welding) side car for the Honda Dulleville motorcycle, that I believe comes in a dual clutch transmission option. With a nice trunk set it could haul pretty much anything. There you go-problem solved!

Etamni

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2015, 06:17:47 PM »
Maxsym 400 or Citycom 300i


Yeah, they're closer to the goal!  8)

Of course, I don't think Alliance is carrying the Maxsym (at least it's not on their website as of just a few minutes ago).  I looked at the specs from a non-US dealer and thought it sounds pretty good, and I reviewed a French YouTube video of someone's ride on one a few months back -- yeah, I like that scoot.  Today, i also looked at http://www.sym-global.com/ and I see there is a Maxsym 600i as well; it's a nice looking bike.

I'm not sure that any of these bikes meet all of my dream bike requirements though.  The manuals are still garbage (I just downloaded all three to check) and they each lack some of the other requirements, especially weight capacity and fuel range (for example, the Citycom 300i appears to have a lower weight capacity than my 200HD does).  That's OK, I don't have the money to upgrade today anyway, so perhaps this will give SYM a chance to improve what they have.

Oh, and a note to AlliancePowerSports -- the issue with the manuals is critical; please, please try to work with SYM to get better owner's manuals for all of the scoots you import.  The grammar is so poor in the current manuals that I have to wonder what other mistakes were made.  Compared to manuals from US automakers and some other motorcycle makers, the SYM manuals are awful.  I've seen worse, mind you, but not on anything I was willing to purchase.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 06:27:40 PM by Etamni »
2012 Sym HD200 EVO

AMAC1680

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2015, 07:05:38 PM »
In a perfect world.....
Americans buy scooters on the same rate that Eskimos buy ice cubes.
There's is little market here for what your looking for. Hondas let the Silvewing age and die because the market is not there. Closest you'll find are the Burgmans.

They don't bring them in because they can't sell them.

AMAC

phipsd

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2015, 10:13:40 PM »
One thing to consider about oil changes. Mileage may not always be a good indicator that oil needs to be changed. It depends on usage. Cold starts and short trips contaminate oil and this is typical scooter usage. Under long distance usage, you can run more hours before oil is degraded and each hour you will be racking many more miles. In marine use, they go by hours.
It also helps greatly to use a high quality synthetic. You can use car oil because your bike has a dry clutch that doesn't use bike oil.

In other words, if you use a high quality synthetic; you can extend your oil change mileage when racking up the highway miles.

phipsd

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2015, 10:19:46 PM »
That MaxSym 600 would be a sweet ride. It's only a few pounds heavier than the 400 so that any gain in power goes directly to performance. It's actually SYM's 550CC ATV motor and it's a very smooth unit, much smoother than the smaller 400.

phipsd

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2015, 10:26:51 PM »
Asking for a better selection of bikes is likely to be a tough sell. Worldwide, bike sales are on the decline. I don't know specifically about SYM but as an example worldwide sales of Suzuki bikes are down from 2.5 Mil in 2011 to about 1.7 mil in 2014 and Suzuki says scooter sales have been helping to keep the numbers up!

Etamni

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2015, 10:52:50 PM »
Asking for a better selection of bikes is likely to be a tough sell. Worldwide, bike sales are on the decline. I don't know specifically about SYM but as an example worldwide sales of Suzuki bikes are down from 2.5 Mil in 2011 to about 1.7 mil in 2014 and Suzuki says scooter sales have been helping to keep the numbers up!
I want a few minor changes to the high-end bikes, and then I want Alliance to bring them in to the US so they are actually available.  I'm not saying that, say the Maxsim 400, would sell as well as the HD200 but I know there's a market for a few bigger scoots.  A good friend recently looked at the Citycom 300i and then went with a bigger motorcycle (not a scoot) because the Citycom 300i did not have the weight capacity to carry him and his girlfriend both.  They are both in their 50s and getting on and off of a regular motorcycle is a chore for both of them, but they want to ride the same machine, not separate ones.

I want the side-car capability for several reasons but mostly to eliminate ever needing a regular car.  Also, for older riders, the use of a side car can eliminate lifting the scoot to put it on the center stand, and extend their enjoyment of two-wheeled vehicles.  I can only hope that when I'm old enough to be called an "old-fart" that I'll be an "old-fart on a scooter!"

The other suggestions are mainly to fix issues with the current scoots, such as the emissions system siphoning fuel into places it doesn't belong, a woefully inadequate user and service manuals, fuel filler necks wearing out, etc.  8)
2012 Sym HD200 EVO

sc00ter

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2015, 08:43:03 AM »
The friend that looked at the CityCom then went with a motorcycle was because one of them WANTED a motorcycle, and NOT a scooter. It's that simple. I have no urge to swing my leg over a bike anymore, and my wife likes the step thru design because it makes it easy for her to get on/off, and I dont have a image issue from not having a "real" motorcycle. Been there and done that with bikes when I was younger. Suzuki still brings in the Burgmans and Honda still brings in the Silverwing. BMW has their big scooters and you have KYMCO bringing in some larger ones, so we still have good choices. 

ootscoot

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2015, 11:39:03 AM »
The Citycom has a 400 lb weight capacity (User proven), and no emissions issues as it is fuel injected. I have Citycom riders in their 70s and one is 83...side stand makes for easy on/off.
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phipsd

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2015, 08:54:03 PM »
I have to agree about ease of use with the Citycom. Compared to a bigger bike, it's easy to handle, ride and push around. Getting on and off is way easier. Room, a long wheelbase, big wheels and steady handling mean that the Citycom has a nice balance of scooter and motorcycle virtues.

I wouldn't hesitate to take another trip cross country as far as I cared to go. I would take the Citycom for riding enjoyment over any stupid trike!

sc00ter

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Re: The scooter I want (Are you listening, Sym?)
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2015, 09:14:23 PM »
400 lb. limit? Wife and I have jumped our CityCom while 2 up! So I can attest to their durability. But the point I was making is most people want a "real" bike and not a scooter, since image is so important. Their loss I guess. I have kinda fallen for the big wheel scooters, and when it comes time to replace the City I hope to have some good choices. Heck, if the City fitted my wife better in the passenger area I would buy another one in a second-in that cool red color!